It has often been said that the Native
Elders of any given tribe hold the keys to knowledge. This statement
has never been more clearly confirmed than in the recent interview
I had the great privilege to conduct with Zulu "Sanusi"
(Shaman) Credo Mutwa, now nearing eighty years of age. Through
the efforts and assistance of David Icke, I was able to establish
contact with Dr. Johan Joubert, who graciously coordinated with
Credo Mutwa, thus allowing the interview to take place by telephone,
literally half-way around the world in South Africa. We at The
SPECTRUM would like to convey our deepest appreciation to both
David Icke and to Dr. Joubert for their selfless efforts at getting
this man's Truth out to the world. I first heard about Credo Mutwa
five years ago, only at that time it didn't seem possible to speak
with him directly by telephone, as he lives in a somewhat remote
area with no phone. When I heard from David Icke that he had spent
time with Credo Mutwa and that he would be willing to speak with
The SPECTRUM, well, that's all it took.
Through the wonder of the international
telephone lines, on August 13 we had what turned out to be a 4-hour
session! And no, we are not about to pare it down to "sound
bite" size. The words he has spoken will appear completely
and in full context, as is our usual policy-a matter of respect
for the speaker as well as simply being good, honest journalism!
Credo Mutwa is a man whom David Icke describes as: "The most
amazing and knowledgeable man it has been my privilege and honor
to call a friend, a genius." After speaking with Credo Mutwa,
I couldn't agree more. I would like to comment that Credo Mutwa,
while not a man of formal education, was kind enough and conscientious
enough to spell all of the Zulu or African words, proper names,
etc. for this article. Those of you who may be African scholars
will find this level of accuracy more advantageous to your research
than will the average reader, however such care taken by Credo
is yet another facet of his honesty and precision. If you feel
that you have read some material lately that stretches your thinking
and challenges some belief systems, this interview will take you
one step beyond. As always, Truth is stranger than fiction.
As well, Truth-or pieces of Truth revealed
to any one of us-are part of a larger mosaic, and thus it is up
to each of us to arrive at our own conclusions concerning the
Truth that others have to share with us. We are honored to have
this opportunity to present Credo Mutwa's experiences and knowledge
with you. It is a most rare and much appreciated opportunity.
The astonishing information presented by Credo Mutwa is certainly
thought provoking and far-reaching in both implications and scope.
Once you read this information you will
more readily understand why there have been attempts to silence
him. Similarly, you will more deeply appreciate Credo's courage
for coming forth and speaking truth, no matter the consequences
to self. So, without further introductory commentary, let the
interview begin.
Martin:First of all, let me say it is an honor and a privilege
to speak with you, and I would like to thank and acknowledge David
Icke and Dr. Joubert, without whose help we would not be having
this conversation today. Our readers are aware of the existence
of the shape-shifting reptilian extraterrestrials, and what I
would like to discuss with you concerns the specifics of their
presence, their leadership, their agenda, and their methods of
operation at this time. So, the first question I would like to
ask you is: Can you confirm that shape-shifting reptilian extraterrestrials
do, in fact, exist on our planet at this time? And if they do,
if you can confirm this, will you please be specific about them.
Where do they come from?
Credo Mutwa: Sir, can your newspaper send people to Africa?
Martin:I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Credo Mutwa: Can your newspaper kindly send somebody to
Africa in the near future?
Martin:We are financially not able to do that at this time,
but that may change in the future.
Credo Mutwa: Because there are some things that I would,
please, like your newspaper to check-out, independent of me. You
have heard of the country called Rwanda, in Central Africa?
Martin:Yes.
Credo Mutwa: The people of Rwanda, the Hutu people, as
well as the Watusi people, state, and they are not the only people
in Africa who state this, that their very oldest ancestors were
a race of beings whom they called the Imanujela, which means "the
Lords who have come". And some tribes in West Africa, such
as a Bambara people, also say the same thing. They say that they
came from the sky, many, many generations ago, a race of highly
advanced and fearsome creatures which looked like men, and they
call them Zishwezi. The word Zishwezi means the dival or the glidal-creatures
that can glide down from the sky or glide through water. Everybody,
sir, has heard about the Dogon people in Western Africa who all
say that they were given culture by the normal beings, but they
are not-the Dogon people are but ONE of many, many peoples in
Africa who claim that their tribe or their king were first founded
by the supernatural race of creatures that came from the sky.
Are you still with me, sir?
Martin:Oh yes, very much so. Please continue.
Credo Mutwa: Sir, I can go on and on, but let me bring
you to my people, the Zulu people of South Africa.
Martin:Please.
Credo Mutwa: The Zulu people, who are famous as a warrior
people, the people to whom King Shaka Zulu, of the last century,
belonged.
When you ask a South African White anthropologist
what the name of Zulu means, he will say it means "the sky"
(laughter), and therefore the Zulu call themselves "people
of the sky". That, sir, is non-sense. In the Zulu language,
our name for the sky, the blue sky, is sibakabaka. Our name for
inter-planetary space, however, is izulu and the weduzulu, which
means "inter-planetary space, the dark sky that you see with
stars in it every night", also has to do with traveling,
sir. The Zulu word for traveling at random, like a nomad or a
gypsy, is izula. Now, you can see that the Zulu people in South
Africa were aware of the fact that you can travel through space-not
through the sky like a bird-but you can travel through space,
and the Zulus claim that many, many thousands of years ago there
arrived, out of the skies, a race of people who were like lizards,
people who could change shape at will. And people who married
their daughters to a walking (extraterrestrial), and produced
a power race of Kings and tribal Chiefs, there are hundreds of
fairy-tales, sir, in which a lizard female assumes the identity
of a human princess and poses as her, and gets married to a Zulu
Prince. Every school child in South Africa, sir, knows about the
story of a princess called Khombecansini. Khombecansini was to
have married a handsome Prince called Kakaka, a name which means
"the enlightened one". Now, one day while Khombecansini
was gathering firewood in the bush, she met a creature called
an Imbulu. And this Imbulu was a lizard which has the body and
the limbs of a human being, but a long tail. And this lizard spoke
to Princess Khombecansini, "Oh, how beautiful you are, girl,
I wish I could be like you. I wish I could look like you. Can
I come close to you?" said the Imbulu lizard woman to the
princess. And the princess said, "Yes, you can." And
as the lizard, which was a taller one, came close to the girl,
she spat into the girl's eyes and she began to change. That is,
the lizard suddenly changed into a human shape and this lizard
began to look more and more and more and more like the girl, with
the exception of her long, pointed tail. And then, with her sudden
burst of violence, the lizard woman sealed the princess and removed
all her bangles and her beads and her wedding skirt off her, and
she put them on. Thus, the lizard became the princess. Now there
were two identical women in the bush, the shape-shifted lizard
woman and the original woman. And the lizard woman said to the
original woman, "Now you are my slave. Now you are going
to accompany me to the marriage. I will be you and you will be
my slave, come-on!" She took a stick and started beating
up the poor princess. And then she went, accompanied by other
girls who were bride's maids, according to Zulu custom, and she
arrived at Prince Kakaka's village.
But, before they reached the village
she had to do something about her tail, that is, the shape-shifting
woman had, somehow, to hide the tail. So, she forced the princess
to weave a net out of fiber and she tucked the tail in and she
tied it tight to herself. She now looked like a Zulu woman with
attractive, very big buttocks, when seen from outside. And then,
when she arrived and she became the wife of the prince, a strange
thing started happening in the village. All of the milk started
disappearing because each night the shape-shifting princess, the
false princess, used to release her tail, which used to suck in
all of the sour milk through a hole at the tip of the tail. And
the mother-in-law said, "What is this? Why is the milk disappearing?"
Then, she said, "No, I see, there is an Imbulu amongst us."
The mother-in-law, who was a clever old lady, said, "A hole
must be dug in the front of the village and it must be filled
with milk." And this was done. And then, all of the girls
who had come with the false princess were told to jump over this
hole. One after the other one, they jumped. And when the shape-shifter
was forced, at spear-point, to jump as well, as she jumped her
long tail burst out of the net under her skirt and started slurping
the milk through the hole, and the warriors killed the shape-shifter.
And thus, the real Princess Khombecansini became the wife of the
king-of King Kakaka. Now, sir, this story has got many versions
in it. Throughout South Africa, amongst many tribes, you'll find
stories of these amazing creatures who are capable of changing
from reptile to human being, and from reptile to any other animal
of their choice. And these creatures, sir, do really exist. No
matter where you go throughout Southern, Eastern, Western, and
Central Africa, you'll find that the description of these creatures
is the same. Even amongst tribes which never, throughout their
long history, had contact with each other at all. So, there ARE
such creatures. Where they come from, I will never claim to know,
sir. But they are associated with certain stars in the sky, and
one of these stars is a large group of stars which is part of
the Milky Way, which our people call Ingiyab, which means "The
Great Serpent". And there is a red star, a redish star, near
the tip of this huge rim of stars which our people call IsoneNkanyamba.
Now, this star called IsoneNkanyamba, I managed to find its English
name. It is the star called Alpha Centauri, in English. Now, this,
sir, is something that is worth investigating. Why is it that
well over 500 tribes in parts of Africa which I've visited in
the last 40 or 50 years or so, all of them describe similar creatures?
It is said that these creatures feed on us human beings; that
they, at one time, challenged God Himself to war, because they
wanted full control of the universe. And God fought a terrible
battle against them and He defeated them, injured them, and forced
them to hide in cities underground. They hide in deep cavities
underground, because they are always feeling cold. In these cavities,
we are told, there are huge fires which are kept going by slaves,
human, zombie-like slaves. And, it is further said that these
Zuswazi, these Imbulu, or whatever you choose to call them, are
not capable of eating solid food. They either eat human blood,
or they eat that power, the energy that is generated when human
beings, on the surface of the Earth, are fighting and killing
each other in large numbers. I met people who have fled from the
early Masaki in Rwanda, from years ago, and these people were
horrified by what was happening in their country. They said that
the slaughter of the Hutus by the Watusi, and the Watusi by the
Hutus, is actually feeding the Imanujela, monsters. Because the
Imanujela like to inhale the energy that is generated by masses
of people being terrified or being killed by other people. Are
you still with me, sir?
Martin:Yes, I'm completely with you.
Credo Mutwa: Now, let me point out an interesting thing,
sir. If you study the languages of all African nations, you find
within the languages of our people words which are similar to
Oriental, Middle-Eastern, and even Native American words. And
the word Imanujela means "the Lord who came". A word
that anyone can discover in Rwanda, amongst the Rwandan Hutu and
Watusi people, is very similar to the Herbrew word Immanuel, which
means "the Lord is with us". Imanujela, "the ones
who came, the Lords who are here". Our people believe, sir,
that we, the people of this Earth, are not masters of our own
lives, really, although we are made to think that we are. Our
people say, that is, Black people of all tribes, all of the initiated
ones, all of the shamans everywhere in Africa, when they get to
trust you and share their deepest secrets with you, they say that
[with] the Imanujela, there is Imbulu. And there is another name
by which these creatures are known. This name is Chitauli. Now,
the word Chitauli means "the dictators, the ones who tell
us the law". In other words, "they who tell us, secretly,
what we are to do". Now, it is said that these Chitauli did
a number of things to us when they came to this planet. Please
forgive me, but I must share this story with you. It is one of
the strangest stories that you find everywhere in Africa in shamanic
secret societies and other places where the remnant of our ancient
knowledge and wisdom are still preserved. It is that, originally,
the Earth was covered by a very thick blanket of fog or mist.
That people could not actually see the Sun in the sky, except
as a nimble of light. And they also saw the Moon at night as a
gentle claw of light in the sky, because there was this heavy
mist. And the rain was always falling in a steady drizzle. There
was no thunder, however.
There were no storms. The world was thickly
covered with great forests, great jungles, and people lived in
peace on Earth at that time. People were happy and it is said,
at that time, we human beings did not have the power of speech.
We only made funny sounds like happy monkeys and baboons, but
we did not have speech as we now have it. And in those centuries,
people spoke to each other through their mind. A man could call
his wife thinking about her, thinking about the shape of her face,
the smell of her body, and the feel of hair as a woman. That a
hunter would go out into the bush and call out for animals to
come, and the animals would select one of their number which was
old and tired, and this animal would offer itself to the hunter
so that he may kill it quickly and take it as meat to his cave.
There was no violence against animals. There was no violence against
Nature by human beings at that time. Man used to ask for food
from Nature. He used to come to a tree and think about fruit,
and the tree would allow some of its fruit to fall to the ground,
and man would take it. And then it is said, however, that when
the Chitauli came to Earth, they arrived in terrible vessels which
flew through the air, vessels which were shaped like great bowls
and which made a terrible noise and a terrible fire in the sky.
And the Chitauli told human beings, whom they gathered together
by force with whips of lightning, that they were great gods from
the sky and that from now on they would receive a number of great
gifts from the god. These so-called gods, who were like human
beings, but very tall, with a long tail, and with terrible burning
eyes, some of them had two eyes-yellow, bright eyes-some had three
eyes, the red, round eye being in the center of their forehead.
These creatures then took away the great powers that human beings
had: the power of speaking through the mind only, the power of
moving objects with their mind only, the power of seeing into
the future and into their past, and the power to travel, spiritually,
to different worlds. All of these great powers the Chitauli took
away from human beings and they gave human beings a new power,
now, the power of speech.
But, human beings found, to their horror,
that the power of speech divided human beings, instead of uniting
them, because the Chitauli cunningly created different languages,
and they caused a great quarrel between people. Also, the Chitauli
did something which has never been done before: they gave human
beings people to rule over them, and they said, "These are
your kings, these are your chiefs.
They have our blood in them. They are
our children, and you must listen to these people because they
will speak on our behalf. If you don't, we are going punish you
very terribly." Before the coming of the Chitauli, before
the coming of the Imbulu creatures, human beings were spiritually
one. But when the Chitauli came, human beings became divided,
both spiritually as well as by language. And then, human beings
were given strange new feelings by the Chitauli. Human beings
started to feel unsafe, and so they started making villages with
very strong fences of wood around them. Human beings started becoming
country makers. In other words, they started creating tribes and
tribe lands, which had borders, which they defended against any
possible enemy. Human beings became ambitious and greedy and they
wanted to acquire wealth in the form of cattle, and sea shells.
And, another thing the Chitauli forced human beings to do, they
forced human beings to mine into the Earth. The Chitauli activated
human women and made them to discover minerals and metals of certain
types. Women discovered copper; women discovered gold; women discovered
silver. And, eventually, they were guided by the Chitauli to alloy
these metals and to create new metals which had never existed
in Nature before, metals such as bronze and brass and others.
Now, the Chitauli, further, removed the sacred rain-bringing mist
from the sky and for the first time since creation, human beings
looked up and saw stars, and the Chitauli told human beings that
they have been wrong in believing that God dwelt under the Earth.
"From now on," the Chitauli told people of this Earth,
"the people of Earth must believe that God is in Heaven and
they must do things here on Earth which would please this God
who is in Heaven." You see, originally, human beings had
believed that God was underground, that she was a very great mother
who dwelt under the Earth because they saw all the green things
growing from under the Earth-the grass came from below ground,
the trees grew from below ground, and the people had believed,
therefore, that the dead people who died go underground. But when
the Chitauli turned humans' eyes towards the sky, people started
believing, now, that God is in the sky and that those who die
from this Earth don't go underground, but go up into the sky.
And to this day, sir, throughout Africa wherever you go as an
investigator, you will find this amazing-these two amazing ideas
which conflict with each other. Many African tribes believe in
what is called Midzimu or Badimo. Now, the word Midzimu or Badimo
means "them who are in the sky". But, in Zulu-land,
amongst my people, you find this amazing schism going hand-in-hand.
There are Zulus who believe that the dead ones are the Abapansi,
which means "the ones who are below, who are under the Earth".
Then there is another idea which says Abapezulu. The word Abapezulu
means "those who are above", and the word Abapansi,
which is the oldest name for the spirits of the dead, means "they
who are under the Earth". So, even today, sir, all over Africa
amongst hundreds of tribes, you find this strange double-belief
that the dead go into the sky, and side-by-side with the belief
that the dead die and go under the Earth. This belief that the
dead die and go under the Earth is said to date to the days when
our people believed that God was a woman, the great Cosmic Mother.
And, it is contrasted by the Abapezulu belief that God is a man
who dwells in the sky. Now, sir, another thing that the Chitauli
told our people, it is said, is that we human beings are here
on Earth to change the Earth and to make it suitable for "God"
to come down one day and dwell in it. And it is said that they
who work to change this Earth and make it safe for the serpent
god, the Chitauli, to come and dwell in it, will be rewarded with
great power and with great wealth. Sir, as I have watched over
many years of study, over many years of initiation of the mysteries
of African shamanism, wisdom, and knowledge, I have found myself
wondering why we human beings are actually destroying the Earth
on which we live. We are doing something which is only done by
one other species of animal, namely, the African elephant, which
utterly destroys every tree in the place in which it dwells. We
human beings are doing exactly this. And wherever you go in Africa,
where once there were great ancient civilizations, you find desert.
For example, there is the Kalahari desert in South Africa, and
under the sands of that desert, I have found the ruins of ancient
cities, which means that human beings turned this stretch of land,
which was once green and fertile, into a desert. And, in days
when I was with explorers and safari people in the Sahara regions
of Africa, I also found evidence of unbelievably ancient human
habitation in places where there is nothing now but angry rock
and whispering sand. In other words, the Sahara Desert was once
a fertile country and was turned into a desert by human beings.
Why? I must ask myself, again and again, why are human beings
being driven by insecurity, greed, and lust of power to turn the
Earth into a desert in which, ultimately, no human being would
ever be able to live? Why? Although we are all aware of the terrible
dangers that this will bring about, why are we cutting huge areas
of jungle in Africa? Why are we on Earth carrying out the instructions
which the Chitauli programmed into us? Although my mind refuses
to accept this, the answer is a terrible yes, yes, yes. Amongst
the many people of wisdom who honor me with their friendship,
is a man of great knowledge who lives in Israel, Dr. Sitchin.
[Editor's note: This reference is to
Dr. Zecharia Sitchin, author of many provocative books about the
interaction of extraterrestrial peoples with Earth humans in very
ancient times.] According to the ancient books which were written
by the people of Sumeria, out of clay, gods came out of the sky
and forced human beings to work for them, to mine gold for them.
This story is confirmed by African legends throughout Africa,
that gods came out of the sky and made us into their slaves, and
they made us into slaves in such a way that we would never realize
that we are slaves. One other thing that our people say is that
the Chitauli prey upon us like vultures. They raise some of us,
they fill some of us with great anger and great ambition, and
they make these people they've raised into great warriors who
make terrible war. But, in the end, the Chitauli do not allow
these great leaders, these great war chiefs and kings, to die
peacefully. The warrior chief is used to make as much war as possible,
to kill as many of his people, and those he calls enemies, as
possible, and then, in the end, the warrior chief dies a terrible
death, with his blood being spilled by others. And this phenomenon
I have seen in my people's history, again and again and again.
Our great King Shaka Zulu, he fought over 200 great wars during
the reign of some 30-something years. And then, he was slaughtered
and he died a violent death. He died a broken man who, because
of the death of his mother, had no longer the power to win any
more battles. And, before Shaka Zulu, there was another king who
trained Shaka to become the great king that he was. That king's
name was Dingiswayo.
Dingiswayo had fought great wars trying
to unite the Zulu people into one great tribe. He had seen the
White people of the Cape and he thought that, by uniting his people
into one huge nation, he would be able to repel the threat to
his people which the White people posed.
But, what happened was, after winning
many battles of uniting many tribes, King Dingiswayo suddenly
became striken by an eye disease which made him almost blind.
And he hid this secret that he could no longer see. But, that
terrible secret was discovered by a woman, a queen of another
tribe, called Ntombazi. Ntombazi took a battle ax and beheaded
Dingiswayo with one blow, after she had lured him into her hut
and given him food and beer to drink. There is also a similar
phenomenon with great White leaders: Napoleon, in Europe, who
died a miserable death on his lonely island in the Atlantic Ocean;
Hitler, also in Europe, who died a terrible death by putting the
gun in the mouth and killing himself, we are told; Attila the
Hun, who was killed by a woman, and many other great leaders who
came to a sticky end after giving as much death and misery to
as many people as they could. King Shaka was stabbed to death
by his half-brother, who used on him the same type of spear that
he had designed to kill people as quickly as possible. And, Julius
Caesar also met a similar fate after he, like our Shaka Zulu,
had conquered many nations. Always the warrior hero dies a death
that he, really, should not die.
King Arthur, in England, was killed by
his own son, Mordred after a long and courageous reign. I could
go on and on and on. Now, all these things, if you bring them
together, they show that whether people laugh at this or not,
whether people scoff at this or not, there is a certain power
that is guiding we human beings toward the dark river of self-destruction.
And the sooner many of us become aware of this, the better, perhaps,
we might be able to deal with it.
Martin:Do you believe that these beings are around the
world equally, or are they primarily focused in Africa?
Credo Mutwa: Sir, I believe that these creatures are everywhere
on Earth, and with respect, sir, although I hate talking about
myself so much, I am a person who has traveled to many parts of
the world. I have been to your country, the United States, sir.
I have been to Australia. I have been to Japan, amongst other
countries. And no matter where I have gone, sir, I have found
people telling me about creatures like this. For example, in 1997,
I visited Australia, sir, and I traveled a lot to try and find
the Black people of Australia, the Aborigine. And when I did find
them, they told me a number of things that astonished me very,
very much. The same things that I'd found in Japan, I found in
Taiwan. Everywhere where there are still shaman and traditional
healers, you find these amazing stories. Now, let me tell you,
sir, what I found in Australia alone. This, that the Australian
Aborigine people, who call themselves Coorie, which means "our
people": The Coorie people of Australia believe in a great
creating god called Byamie, sir. A Coorie shaman, in fact, several
of them, drew me pictures of this Byamie, and one of them showed
me a rock painting representing this strange creator god who came
out of the stars. And when they placed their drawing in front
of me, what they showed was a Chitauli. I recognized it from my
African initiation. It had a large head. It had large eyes, which
were stressed by the artist. It had no mouth, and it had long
arms and incredibly long legs. Sir, this was a typical depiction
of a Chitauli which I knew from my own people in Africa. I asked
myself "Why?" Here I am in a country many thousands
of miles away from Africa, and here I am seeing a being known
as the Biamai or Bimi, who is a creature with which I, the African,
am familiar. Amongst the Native American people, sir, I found,
for example, amongst certain tribes in America, tribes such as
the Hopi people, and those people who stay in those buildings
called a pueblo, I found that these people-they have got what
are called Katchina creatures, where people wear masks and disguise
themselves as certain creatures.
And some of these Katchinas are very,
very tall, with a huge round head. Exactly as we have in Africa,
I found similar creatures in America.
In Africa we call these creatures Egwugwu,
or, we call them by another name, called Chinyawu. The Katchina
of the Native American people, and the Chinyawu of our people,
are identical beings. Now, why should this be? When were American
Native people and Africans in contact? When? This is one of the
greatest mysteries of all time, sir. It is one of many things
that I found throughout the world which left me utterly amazed.
There ARE such creatures, and the sooner skeptics amongst us face
up to this fact, the better it shall be. Why is human-kind not
progressing? Why are we running around in a great circle of self-destruction
and mutual-destruction? People are basically good; I believe this.
People don't want to start wars. People don't want to destroy
the world in which they stay, but there are creatures, or there
is power that is driving we human beings toward self-annihilation.
And the sooner we recognize this, the better. Just now, I live
in Africa. Here are my people. Here is my home. But I see Africa
being destroyed in wars that make no sense whatsoever to me as
an African. I look at India which, like Africa, suffered the scourge
of colonialism by the French, the English, and other European
powers. But India, through her independence as a country, has
achieved the things which we, Africa, have failed to achieve.
Why? India has exploded the atomic bomb and is today one of the
feared nations of this world. India has launched satellites into
orbit.
India, although she has the same problems
as Africa has-a burgeoning population, religion as well as tribal
strife-although India has got an incredibly poor section of her
population, as well as an incredibly rich one, she has achieved
things that Africa has failed to achieve. Now, I ask myself "Why?
Why?" Because India was established by people from Africa,
and I don't think, sir, as the Black races about this.
This is a fact that, thousands of years
ago, people from Africa laid the foundation of the greatest civilization
of India, as well as other countries in Southeast Asia. There
is overwhelming archeological evidence of this. But, why is Africa
drowning in war, in disease, and in hunger? Why? Many times, sir,
I sit in my hut and I cry when I see diseases like AIDS destroying
us; when I see senseless wars destroying those countries in Africa
which had thrived for thousands of years. Say, Ethiopia is a country
that has been free for thousands of years.
Ethiopia was once the school of all of
Africa. Nigeria was once a great country with a long tradition
of self-government-long, long before the White man came to Africa.
But today, all of these countries and many others are being destroyed.
Today, sir, there are parts of Africa which have been totally
depopulated by war and by the disease called AIDS, a disease which
shows every sign of being a man-made disease. I ask myself, "Who
or what is destroying Africa, and why?" Because there are
tribes in those villages I lived in, who assisted my search for
knowledge, before the Second World War and after. But today these
tribes no longer exist anymore. They are gone, dispersed, totally
exterminated in senseless wars that gain the Black people nothing.
I am in South Africa now. Here I was born, and here I was to die.
But I see my country falling apart like a rotting mango. South
Africa was once a powerful country. She had a powerful army. She
had huge industries, which were producing everything from locomotives
to little radios. But today my country has become a drug-sodden,
crime-ridden piece of rubbish. Why? A country doesn't get destroyed
almost overnight, unless there are definite forces which are determined
to obliterate it. I recently saw, sir, the destruction of another
country inside South Africa. The country is Lesotho. This country,
Lesotho, is inhabited by some of the oldest and the wisest tribes
in South Africa. Amongst them is a tribe called the Bakwama. The
Bakwama people are so ancient that they actually describe to you
a mysterious land of huge pointed mountains, a mysterious land
ruled by a great god, who had the head of a human being and the
body of the lion. [One immediately thinks of the Sphinx in Egypt.]
The Bakwama call this country Ntswama-tfatfi. This land that they
name Ntswama-tfatfi means "the land of the Sun-hawk".
The hawk is the bird of prey in Heaven-you know? Now, these Bakwama
people did, in South Africa, know about the land of Egypt where
they say their ancestors came from. And they call this mysterious
land of the gods, "the land of the Sun-hawk, or the Sun-eagle",
which is exactly how the Egyptians portrayed their country, sir.
They portrayed it as "the land of Hor", the god Horus
in Greece. Now, when Princess Diana died, in 1997, I was one of
the first Black people to suspect that Princess Diana had been
murdered, and I will tell you why this thing happened, sir. Because,
about a year or 8 months before Diana died, there died a king
in Lesotho, King Moshoeshoe II. King Moshoeshoe II's death was
detail-for-detail identical to Princess Diana's death. Consider
this please, all of you who might find my words incredible: Princess
Diana died in a tunnel, but the king of Lesotho died in a ravine.
He had gone far away to investigate a problem in his cattle ranch.
It was found that he was overdue, and when the people went to
search for him, they heard from various boys who were looking
after the cattle in the Basotho-land mountains, that the boys
had heard what sounded like a rifle shot, and when the men went
to look where the rifle shot had sounded, they found the king's
car off the road and deep in the ravine. They went down their
and they found that the king of Lesotho was in his car. He was
strapped in a safety belt, but he had a terrible injury at the
back of his head. And they found that the king's driver was dead
at the steering wheel. But, the two men who were the king's bodyguards,
who were riding in the king's vehicle in the seat directly behind
the king, had escaped without a scratch.
One of the men entered the car and pulled
out the dying king. The king apologized to them for messing-up
their hands with his blood, which was a tradition, that a dying
king must thank the people who are trying to get him out of where
he is. And he must apologize to them for putting them into trouble,
because anyone who handles the sacred blood of the king is in
spiritual trouble of some kind after that. Then, when the king's
car was brought out of the ravine, it was found that there was
a hole, like a bullet hole, in one of the tires of the car. And
that car's tire was mysteriously removed, afterwards, when the
king's car was stored not in a safe place, but in a yard outside
where anybody could get at it. And, when an autopsy was conducted
on the body of the driver of the king's car, it was found that
the man had been so drunk as to not have been able to drive the
car at all.
And third, the man who had driven the
king's car and who died at the wheel had not been the man who
usually drives the king's car. Now, sir, do you see this mystery
now? The death of the Lesotho king matched that of Princess Diana,
which was to follow it. In many other amazing details than I have
detailed now, and so the nation of Lesotho was reduced to a retch
after the king's death, when rioting took place as a result of
a general election which provisional party members prospected
and controlled. Today Lesotho is an economically moribund nation.
And Lesotho is a country which was the place of a strange experiment-an
experiment which consisted of the building of a huge dam, whose
purpose was to supply South Africa, and not Lesotho, with large
quantities of water.
And we have recently heard ugly rumors
emanating from that country, that somebody was bribed to facilitate
the building of this huge dam where the water of a small nation
is being used to supply, to supplement the water supplies of a
highly industrialized nation. There are many strange things, sir,
which have taken place in South Africa, and are taking place,
as well as in other parts of Africa, which make no sense to me
as an African. There are wars which take place in Africa, where
after an African country has gained its independence from the
colonial power, then a force of rebels pick up weapons against
that country's government, but instead of the rebels fighting
the government to the bitter end, what happens again and again
is that the rebel forces split into various groups which end up
fighting not only the government in power, but also each other.
And the result is that, in several African countries, the country
is so destroyed that, no matter which party wins, the people lose.
The United Nations are caused to be called in, in order to create
some semblance of peace. In other words, Africans have now started
fighting wars which bring about not victory, but the destruction
of themselves, as well as their people. I would like to draw your
attention, sir, to the senseless tide which is still raging in
the Sudan, as well as other parts of Africa. I would like to draw
your attention, sir, to the longest and most terrible civil war
which is destroying the southern parts of the Sudan. I would like
to draw your attention, and that of your readers, sir, to the
terrible war which is destroying Angola. And one part of the world,
to the East of Southern Africa, has been so raped by many years
of war that there are now places where you don't even hear a bird-thing.
All living forms of life have been wiped-out in that place. Now,
why? And then, I have found that these countries that are being
destroyed by senseless wars which are totally out of character
for us Africans, and I speak as an African, are those countries
which, had they been left alone, could have supplied the whole
of Africa with food, with water, and with valuable minerals. I
am told, sir, that under the surface of Angola, under the plains
of Angola, are deposits of coal which are without equal in this
world. I am further told that in parts of Angola there are deposits
of oil which are second only to those reserves of oil which are
in the Middle East. The Sudan is a country which I visited several
times during, and even after, the Second World War. In the Sudan
there was so much food that you received free food from the villagers,
as you traveled through the Sudan. Today, southern Sudan is a
starvation-torn, battle of rage hellhole where children die of
diarrhea in the bush while the vultures and buzzards wait on the
branches of trees to feast. Africa is being systematically and
deliberately destroyed by a power of such relentlessness that
it is continuing the destruction even now. But, this power is
getting desperate.
Martin:Excuse me. Did you say there was coal in Angola
or gold?
Credo Mutwa: Coal, sir, coal. There are diamonds in Angola,
sir.
And I have learned from reliable people
that there is more oil under Angola, in certain places, than there
is in certain parts of the Middle East. Is this what Africa is
being destroyed for? Is this what our nations are being slaughtered
for-for coal under the surface, for diamonds? If so, who is this
intelligence that is behind this? Are people less valuable than
minerals? Are people less valuable than oil? Because, sir, genocide,
worse than anything that Hitler ever committed upon the Jewish
people, is taking place in Africa NOW, and the people of America
don't seem to care a damn. Why? We are the best friends that the
United States has got. We are the best people. We buy American
products. Our children want to look like American children. Our
kids wear jeans, sir, and they even speak with American accents,
because you American people are our role model. Why are you allowing
us to be slaughtered? Why? Why? Not only are we being killed by
war, sir, we are being killed by drugs. There were no drugs in
South Africa during the days of the apartheid government. Now,
under our democratic government, our country has become one drug-sodden
cess pit. Why? Today, sir, and I speak as a traditional shaman,
one of my purposes is to try and help people with a drug problem.
Sir, I can help a young African who is abusing marijuana or hashish.
I can help a young African who is dependent upon Dakwa. But, sir,
I am useless, my skills are rubbish and I fail again-and so do
many like me-to help young Black people who are addicted to a
new type of drug which is called "crack". It is a hard-looking
drug. It's like hardened chocolate when you see it, and this thing
is so addictive that no shaman can help a young victim of this
drug. I am asking the people of the United States of America,
I am asking my Black brothers and my Black sisters over there,
why are you allowing the country which is your mother to be exterminated?
I don't care what skeptics say, sir. Please forgive me when I
really get hot under the collar. I don't care what skeptics say,
but there IS a force destroying Africa and I am not buying the
nonsense that it is the bankers of the IMF and other big banks.
You don't kill the goose that gives you the golden egg, so why
would the bankers want to destroy Africa? There is another force
behind these people, a terrible, alien force, which does things
behind the scenes which-and the sooner we recognize this, the
better-sir, it is very common for human beings who are in trouble
to blame forces other than those inside themselves. But, I have
studied the situation in Africa since the end of the Second World
War, and before, and I have evidence that points to an alien force
at work in Africa. What, who is wiping out Africa's oldest tribes?
Please, sir, let me tell you a thing that cuts my soul. May I
please?
Martin:Please, continue.
Credo Mutwa: Please, I'm sorry to talk so much. Please
forgive me. I belong to the Zulu nation, a nation of warriors,
a nation of wise people. My people, sir, have never been studied
by White anthropologists thoroughly, but the Zulu people knew
things that, if I were to share with your readers, they would
be amazed. Let me show you this. The Zulu people KNEW, amongst
many things, that it is the Earth which moves around the Sun,
and not the other way around. They said, to explain this thing
to the initiated, that the Earth is a feminine creature and the
Sun is a male creature, and, therefore, the Earth is the mobile
one who dances around the Sun-the beautiful princess who dances
around the fiery king who is the Sun.
Our people knew that the Earth was a
sphere. Our people knew about germs and their function. When the
White man came to Africa, where did this incredible knowledge
come from? I do not know. The people of America and the people
of Europe say that it was Albert Einstein who came out with the
idea that time and space are one and the same thing. My answer
to that is, "No!" My people, the Zulus, knew that space
and time was one thing. In the language of the Zulu, one of the
names for space is umkati. And the Zulu name for time is isikati.
Now, our people knew that space and time were one and the same
thing, hundreds of years before Einstein's birth. And furthermore,
our people believed, like the Dogon people, that there are 24
planets in our part of space which are inhabited by intelligent
creatures of various states. And, this knowledge has never been
recorded in any book, and I and my aunt are the only surviving
high sanusi [shaman] in South Africa who are the keepers of this
knowledge. My aunt is still alive. She is about 90-something years
old, and I am now close to dead, suffering from diabetes-a terrible
killer of African people nowadays. And, what I am trying to tell
you is that, although my people had this tremendous knowledge,
which has never been written down in any book, the Zulu people
today, a huge percentage of them, are victims of HIV or outright
AIDS. And it has been calculated, sir, in the next 50 years, fully
three-fourths of the Zulu people in Natal are going to die. And
I am the keeper of sacred objects which I inherited from my grandfather.
I am, from my mother's side, a direct descendant of the last true
Zulu king, Dingame. And, my duty should be to protect my people
from anything that threatens their existence. Look, please, sir.
Anyone who studies humanity with love, with understanding, and
with care, recognizes the fact that there is a shining God which
is struggling to be born within each and every one of us. We are
trying to fight back, although many of us are not yet aware of
this. We are developing an attitude of wanting to protect our
planet, no matter who or what we are. There are chiefs in Africa
who fine you very heavily if they see you destroying a tree unnecessarily.
This thing was common in the past, but it disappeared with the
coming of the White people; but now it has come back again. Man
is becoming, is struggling to become a more advanced, more caring
being, and the aliens are not going to take this lying down. They
are going to cause us to kill each other, again. And I am worried
about what is going to happen. Sir, I can show you many strange
things that African people did to protect themselves against the
Grey aliens. The things that our people did were not the result
of superstition. They were the result of terrible personal experience.
One day I hope to share with you, sir, the story of how I got
"taken", we say. We believe, sir, that the Mantindane
("the tormentor"), the Greys, are really servants of
the Chitauli. And that they, contrary to what White people think-White
people think a wrong thing, sir, many-that the Mantindane are
experimenting with us. They are NOT. I repeat, they are not. Anyone
who has been through the hells of these beings will tell you that
there is nothing experimental in what they do. There is a cold,
cold, cold-blooded resolve, and they are not doing what they do
to us for themselves, they are doing what they do to us for greater
creatures than they are. Please, sir, can you give me a little
time to share with you, briefly, what happened to me?
Martin:Oh yes, absolutely, please. We have all the time
you need.
Credo Mutwa: Sir, it was an ordinary day, like any other
day. It was a beautiful day in the eastern mountains of Zimbabwe,
which are called Inyangani. These are mountains to the East of
Zimbabwe. Now, I had been instructed by my teacher to go and find
a special herb which we were going to use in the healing of a
certain initiate who was badly ill. And my teacher, a woman called
Mrs. Moyo, was Ndebele, from Zimbabwe, once known as Rhodesia.
I was looking for this herb, and I was not thinking about anything,
and I had no belief whatsoever in these creatures. I had never
encountered them before, and although we African people believe
in many things, I was mighty skeptical, even about certain entities
that we believed in at that time, because I had never encountered
anything like that before. And all of a sudden, sir, I noticed
that the temperature around me had dropped, although it was a
very hot African day. I suddenly noticed that it was now cold
and there was, what appeared to be, a bright blue mist swirling
all around me, getting between me and the eastern landscape. I
remember wondering, stupidly, what this thing meant, because I
had just begun to dig one of the herbs I had found. Suddenly,
I found myself in a very strange place, a place that looked like
a tunnel lined with metal. I had worked in mines before, and where
I found myself appeared to be a mine tunnel which was lined with
silver-greyish metal. I was lying on what appeared to be a very
heavy and very large working bench or a working table, sir. But
yet, I was not chained to the table. I was just lying there and
my trousers were missing, and so were the heavy boots that I always
wore when I was out in the bush. And all of a sudden, in this
strange, tunnel-like room, I saw what appeared to be dull, heady-looking,
grey, dull-like creatures which were moving toward me. There were
lights in this place, but not lights as we know them. They seemed
to be patches of glowing stuff. And there was something above
the far entrance which looked like writing, that writing against
the silver-grey surface, and these creatures were coming at me
but I was hypnotized, just as if the witchcraft had been put upon
my head. But I watched the creatures as they were coming towards
me. I didn't know what they were. I was frightened, but I couldn't
move my arms or my legs. I just lay there like a goat on a sacrificial
altar. And when the creatures came towards me, I felt fear inside
me. They were short creatures, about the size of African Pigmy.
They have very large heads, very thin arms, and very thin legs.
I noticed, sir, because I am an artist, a painter, that these
creatures were built all wrong from an artist's point of view.
Their limbs were too long for their body, and their necks were
very thin, and their heads were almost as large as full-grown
watermelons. They had strange eyes, which looked like goggles
of some kind. They had no noses, as we have, only small holes
on either side of the raised area between their eyes. Their mouth
had no lips, only thin cuts as if made by a razor. And while I
was looking at these creatures, sir, in amazed fascination, I
felt something close to my head, about my head. And when I looked
up, there was another creature, a slightly bigger one than the
other, and it was standing above my head and was looking down
at me. I looked up into its eyes and I was totally hypnotized,
and you know, I was spellbound. I looked into the thing's eyes
and I noticed that the creature wanted me to keep looking into
his eyes. I looked and saw that, through these covers over their
eyes, I could see the creature's real eyes behind this black,
goggle-like cover. It's eyes were round, with straight pupils,
like those of a cat. And the thing was not moving it's head. It
was breathing; I could see that. I could see little nostrils moving,
closing and shutting, but sir, if anybody says to me that I smelled
like that creature, really, I would konk him one on the face.
Martin:(Laughter)
Credo Mutwa: The creature smelled like nobody's business.
It had a strange smell, a throat-tightening, chemical smell, which
smelled like rotten eggs, and also like hot copper [sulfur], a
very strong smell. And the creature saw me looking at it, and
it looked down at me and, all of a sudden, I felt a terrible,
awful pain on my left thigh, as if a sword had been driven into
my left thigh. I screamed in pain, horrible, calling out for my
mother, and the creature placed it's hand over my mouth. You know,
sir, it was like-if you want to know how that felt, please sir,
take the leg of a chicken, a live chicken, and place it against
your lips. That was how the creature's hand felt upon my mouth.
It had thin, long fingers, which had more joints than my human
fingers have. And the thumb was in the wrong place. Each one of
the fingers ended in a black claw, almost like certain African
birds. The thing was telling me to be quiet. And how long the
pain went on, sir, I don't know. I screamed and I screamed and
I screamed, again. And then, all of a sudden, something was pulled
out of my flesh, and I looked down and saw my thigh covered with
blood, and I saw that one of the creatures-there were four of
them, other than the one standing over my head-they wore tight
fitting overalls, which were silvery-grey in color, and their
flesh resembled the flesh of certain types of fish that we find
in the sea off South Africa. And the creature standing above my
head appeared to be a female. It was somehow different than the
others. It was taller, bigger, although it didn't have breasts
like a woman, it appeared to be feminine. And the others appeared
to be afraid of it, I don't know how I can describe this. And
then, while this terrible thing was going on, another of the creatures
came up to me-it walked sideways, in a slightly jerking way, as
if it was drunk-it walked up along the table, to my right side,
and it stood next to the one standing above my head. And before
I knew what was happening, this creature stuck something that
was like a small, silver, ball-point pen with a cable at one end,
it pushed this thing, coldly, into my right nostril. Sir, the
pain was out of this world. Blood splattered all over. I choked
and tried to scream, but the blood got into my throat. It was
a nightmare. Then, it pulled the thing out and I tried to fight
and sit up. The pain was terrible, but the other thing above my
head placed it's hand upon my forehead and kept me down with very
little force. I was choking and trying to spit out the blood,
and then I managed to turn my head to the right to spit out the
blood, which I did, and then what the creatures did to me, sir,
I don't know. All I do know is that the pain went away, and in
place of the pain, strange visions flooded my head, visions of
cities, some of which I recognized from my travels-but, cities
which were half-destroyed, the buildings having their tops blown
away, with windows like empty eye-sockets in a human skull. I
saw these visions again and again.
All the buildings that I saw were half-drowned
in a reddish, muddish water. It was as if there had been a flood
and the buildings were sticking up out of this great flood, partly
destroyed by a disaster of some kind, and it was a terrible sight.
And then, before I knew it, one of the creatures, the one standing
next to my feet, drove something into my organ of manhood, but
here there was no pain, just a violent irritation, as if I was
making love to something or someone. And then, when the creature
withdrew the thing, which was like a small, black tube which it
had forced into my organ of manhood, I did something which produced
a strange result, and I did not do it intentionally. I think it
was-my bladder opened, and I urinated straight into the chest
of the creature which had pulled the thing out of my organ. And
if I had shot the creature, it would never have reacted as it
did. It jerked away and nearly fell, and then it recovered and
staggered away like a drunken insect, and left the room. I don't
know whether my urine did it; I don't know. But that is what happened.
Then, after a while, the other creatures went away, leaving me
with a dull pain in my nostril, with blood on my thigh, and the
table wet with urine. And the thing standing above my head had
not moved. It just stood there with it's right hand touching it's
left shoulder, in a strangely beautiful and feminine way. It stood
there looking at me.
There was no expression in its face.
I never saw any of the creatures talk or make any sound of any
kind. All I do know is that they appeared to be mute. And then,
out of somewhere there arrived two other creatures, one of which
was made entirely out of metal. Even in my worst nightmares, I
still see this creature. It was tall. It was big. And the area
in which we were was too small for it. It walked with a slight
stoop, moving forward, and it was definitely not a living thing.
It was a metal creature, a robot of some kind. And it came and
it stood near my feet, its whole body clumsily bent, looking down
at me. There was no mouth. There was no nose. There were just
two bright eyes, which seemed to change color, and seemed to move
somehow, like the crackling of an electrical device. And then,
behind this huge, bent creature, came a creature which surprised
me. It was very, very, very, very swollen, sir, in appearance.
It had pink skin. It had a blondish, very human body. It had very
bright, blue, slanting eyes. It had hair which looked like nylon
fiber of some kind. It had high cheek-bones and an almost human
mouth, with full lips and a small, pointed chin. The creature,
sir, was definitely a female but like an artist and a painter,
which I am, and also a sculptor, I noticed that the creature was
totally out of proportion. It was wrong. First, its breasts were
thin and pointed, and set too high upon its chest, not where a
normal woman's breasts would be. Its body was powerful, almost
fat, but its legs were too short and its arms were too short in
proportion to the rest of its body. And it came towards me, looked
down at me, and before I knew what it was doing, somehow it mated
with me. It was a horrible experience, sir, even worse than what
had been done to me before. But even now, the trauma of that day
had affected my life even now, exactly 40 years later. And after
that, when the creatures had gone, leaving only the one creature
which had been standing about my head, the creature standing about
my head shook me by the hair, it gripped me by the head and forced
me to stand off the table and to get off the table. I did that,
and such was the state that I was in, that I fell onto my knees
and hands, onto the floor. And I noticed that that floor was strange.
It had moving patterns in it, which kept on changing and shifting-purple,
red, and greenish patterns, on a metal-grey background. And the
creature pulled me by the hair, again, forcing me to stand up,
and it pushed me roughly and made me follow it. Sir, it would
take too long for me to describe what I saw in that strange place,
as the creature pushed me, roughly, from room to room.
Even now my mind can't grasp what it
was that I saw. Amongst many things that I saw were huge cylindrical
objects, made of what appeared to be glass of some kind. And in
these object, cylinders, which reached from the roof to the floor
of the place we were going through, was what appeared to be a
sort-of a greyish-pink liquid. And in this liquid I saw small
editions of the alien creatures floating round and round, like
disgusting little frogs, inside this liquid. I couldn't understand
what it was that I was being shown. But then, in the last room
I was led through, I saw people, and other strange creatures,
which, even now, my mind can't make head or sense out of, lying
on the table. And I passed a White man, a real White man, who
smelled like a human being, was smelling of sweat, urine, excrement,
and fear. This White man was lying on a table like the one I had
been lying on, and I looked into his eyes and he looked into mine
as I went by. And then I found myself out in the bush. I found
that my trousers were missing. There was a terrible pain in my
left thigh. There was a pain in my penis which was starting to
swell, and when I tried to pass water, the pain was excruciating.
I took off my shirt and I used it as a loin-cloth and I walked
through the bush. I first met a group of young Rhodesian Black
people who guided me to my teacher's village. And when I arrived
outside that village, I smelled so horribly that every dog in
the village came yapping and snarling to tear me to pieces. And
it was only my teacher and her other students and the villagers
who saved me on that day. My teacher and the villagers were not
at all surprised by what I had to tell them. They accepted it,
sir. They said to me that what had happened to me had happened
to many other people before, and that I was lucky to return alive,
because many people have disappeared in that part of the land,
never to be seen again-White people, Black people, and so on.
Sir, I'm cutting a very long story short. In the year following,
1960, I was delivering parcels in the city of Johannesburg. You
see, I was working in a curio shop, when a White man shouted at
me to stop. I assumed that the White man was a secret policeman
who wanted to look into my identity documents. And when I tried
to produce the documents, he told me, angrily, that he didn't
want to see my stinking documents. Sir, he asked me this question:
"Listen, where the hell have I seen you before? Who are you?"
I said, "I am nobody, sir; I am just a working man."
He said, "Don't bullshit me, man; who the hell are you? Where
did I see you before?" And then I looked at him. I recognized
him-his long, straggly, golden-brown hair, his ridiculous mustache
and beard. I remembered him-his blue eyes blood-shot and naked-terror,
shining upon his eyes, and his skin as pale as that of a goat.
I said, "Meneer", which is the African's way. "Meneer-I
saw you in Rhodesia in a certain place underground." And
if I had hit that White man with my fist, he wouldn't have reacted
the way he did, sir. He turned away and walked with a terrible
expression, and he disappeared on the other side of the street.
Now, roughly, this is what happened to me, sir, but it is not
a unique experience at all. Since that time I met many, many,
many people who have had the identical experience that I said,
and most of them were traditional Black men and women who can
neither read nor write. They were coming to me to seek my help
as a shaman, but I was, myself, looking for somebody wiser than
I to tell me what had happened to me, exactly.
Because, sir, when I get caught by the
Mantindane, you become so traumatized, your life becomes so changed,
you become so embarrassed and ashamed of yourself, you develop
a self-hatred which you cannot understand, and there are subtle
changes in your life which make no sense to you. One: You develop
a strange love for humankind. You want to shake everybody by the
shoulders and say, "Hey, wake-up people; we are not alone.
I KNOW we are not alone!" And, you develop a feeling that
your life is no longer your own; and furthermore, you become compelled
with a strange edge to move from place to place, to travel. You
become worried about the future; you become worried about people.
And another thing, sir, which I hoped one day you would send people
to me to see for their own self: you develop knowledge which doesn't
belong to you. You develop an understanding of space, an understanding
of time and creation which makes no sense to you as a human being-it
is a state, after your terrible torture, after substances have
been removed from you, some kind of exchange takes place where
you suddenly know things that the Mantindane would know, which
ordinary human beings do not know. But, sir, I know that this
sharing of God often happens even when-for example, at one time,
in 1966, in South Africa, sir, I was arrested and rather savagely
interrogated by the security police. It was that time when every
Black intellectual, no matter who he or she was, had a visit from
these really nasty guys, who put you to torture, sometimes, who
used to put electrical devices on you, and ask you questions,
and so on. Sometimes, when these "human beings" were
torturing you, you often used to sense what they were thinking.
Somehow, when you are being tortured by human beings, not by Mantindane
only, there is a transference of thought. For example, when a
particularly nasty secret policeman was coming to beat you, you
KNEW what he was thinking, even before he burst into the room
in which you were held.
You knew that he was coming, and you
knew exactly what he was thinking and what he intended to do to
you. So, this is why I say the strange things that flood my mind.
And what flooded my mind on that day were visions from the mind
of the Mantindane. Since that time-I am a man of only very limited
education-I found it hard to speak, let alone to write English.
I take long to say things which people of better English would
say in few words. But, my hands are capable of making things which
nobody ever taught me. I make engines, rocket engines that actually
work. I make guns, of any type I wish, and all people who know
me will tell you this and, Mr. David Icke, sir, might show you
pictures of what I've done around my new home. I have made large
robots out of scrap iron, and some of these robots are going to
work. I don't know where I acquired this knowledge from. And since
that terrible day, the visions I have seen since I was a child,
and the ordinary impressions which I have as a shaman, have grown
much more intense. I don't know why, and I want to know the reason
why. But I can tell you, sir, that these creatures, which people
wrongly call aliens, are not aliens at all. Over many years of
looking into this thing, trying to understand it, I can tell you
this: that the Mantindane, and the other kinds of alien beings
that our people know about, are sexually compatible with human
beings. The Mantindane are capable of impregnating African women.
And I have come across many cases of this during the last 30 years
or so. For example, according to our culture, abortion is regarded
as worse than murder. And if a tribal woman from a rural area
in South Africa is found to be pregnant by some unknown person,
and then her pregnancy disappears, that, sir, relative to that
woman, accuses her of having committed abortion, and yet she denies
this, of course. And because of the fight that results between
her and her relatives, the husband's relatives, then she challenges
these people who are accusing her to take her to a sangoma; that
is a person like myself.
The sangoma will sometimes examine the
woman and, if the sangoma finds that the woman had been pregnant,
and had somehow had her fetus removed-a thing which, when it is
done by the Mantindane, results in specific injuries to the woman
which anyone with experience can recognize-then, the sangoma knows
that the woman is telling the truth. Also, the smell which clings
to people who have been through the hands of the Mantindane, that
meticulous man which is unforgetable, always clings to all women
who have been impregnated by the Mantindane, no matter how much
perfume or powder they try to use. So, that is why many such cases
land on the doorstep of my life.
Sangomas bring such people to me in large
numbers, because they think I am the best one to help in such
problems. So, in the last 40 years or so, I have received many
women who have actually been impregnated by the Mantindane and
their pregnancies mysteriously terminated, leaving the woman feeling
defiled, feeling guilty, and rejected by her family. It becomes
my duty to convince the family of the woman's innocence, to try
and heal the terrible spiritual and mental-as well as physical-trauma
that the woman has undergone, and to otherwise help her and her
members of the family, and forget what happened. No, sir; if these
aliens are from a far away planet, why are they able to impregnate
women? And why did that strange creature, which was naked, with
red pubic hair, which climbed over me on that working table, why
did it have an organ which, though slightly different from that
of a normal woman, was still a recognizable female organ? The
creature's organ was in the wrong place. It was slightly more
in the front, where that of normal woman is between the legs.
But it was recognizable, and it looked like a female organ. It
had hair like a woman's organ. So, sir, I believe that these so-called
aliens don't come from far away at all. I believe that they are
here with us, and I believe that they need substances from us,
just as some of us human beings use certain things from wild animals,
such as monkey glands, for certain selfish purposes of our own.
I believe, sir, that we should study this dangerous phenomenon
very, very, clearly and with objective minds. Far too many people
fall into the temptation of looking upon these "aliens"
as supernatural creatures. They are just solid creatures, sir.
They are like us; and, furthermore, I'm going to make a statement
here which will come as a surprise: the Grey aliens, sir, are
edible. Surprised?
Martin:Please continue.
Credo Mutwa: I said, sir, the Grey aliens are edible.
Martin:Yes, I heard that and I'm anxious to....
Credo Mutwa: Their flesh is protein, just as animal flesh
on Earth is, but, anyone who ingests Grey alien flesh comes very,
very close to death. I nearly did. You see, in Lesotho there is
a mountain called Laribe; it is called the Crying Stone mountain.
On several occasions, in the last 50 years or so, alien craft
have crashed against this mountain. And one last incident was
reported in the newspapers not so long ago.
An African who believes that these creatures
are gods, when they find the corpse of a dead Grey alien, they
take it, put it in a bag, and drag it into the bush, where they
dismember it and ritually eat it.
But some of them die as a result of ingesting
that thing. About a year before I had the experience from the
Inyangani Mountains, I had been given, by a friend of mine in
Lesotho, flesh from what he called a sky god. I was skeptical.
He gave me a small lump of grey, rather dry stuff, which he said
was the flesh. And he and I and his wife ritually ate this thing,
one night. After we had eaten this thing, sir, on the following
day, exactly, our bodies erupted into a rash which was like nothing
I had experienced in my life before. Our bodies were so full of
the rash and urticaria, it was as if we had small pox. We itched,
the itching was horrible, especially under the arm-pits and between
the legs, and the buttocks. Our tongues began to swell. We could
not breathe. And for a number of days, my friend, his wife and
I were totally helpless, secretly attended by initiates who were
studying under my friend, who was a shaman. I came very close
to death. There was bleeding from nearly every orifice in our
body. We passed blood, much blood when we went to the toilet.
We could barely walk, barely breathe. And after about 4 or 5 days,
the rash subsided, then the pealing of the skin took its place
now. Our skins began to peal, in scales like that of a snake shedding
it's skin. Sir, it was one of the most terrible experiences I
had undergone. In fact, when I began to feel better, I think that
my being abducted by the Mantindane was the direct result of my
having ingested flesh from one of these creatures. I had not believed
that what my friend was giving me was flesh from a creature. I
assumed it was some kind of root or herb or whatever. But, afterwards,
I recalled the taste of the thing. It had a coppery taste, and
had the same type of smell that I was to encounter in 1959. And,
after the rash went down-while I was still peeling and we were
smeared from head to foot with coconut oil by the initiates, every
day-a strange change came over us, sir, which I am asking all
people of knowledge who would read this in your country to try
and explain to me. We went crazy, sir, utterly crazy. We started
laughing like real loony tunes. It was ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, day
after day-for the slightest things we started laughing our heads
off, for hours, until you were nearly exhausted. And then the
laughing went away; and then a strange thing happened, a thing
which my friend said was the goal which those who ate the flesh
of a Mantindane wanted to achieve. It was as if we had ingested
a strange substance, a drug, a drug like no other on this Earth.
Suddenly, our feelings were heightened. When you drank water,
it was as if you had drunk a wine of some kind.
Water became as delicious as a man-made
drink. Food began to taste amazingly. Every feeling was heightened,
and it's indescribable-it was as if I was one with the very heart
of the universe. I cannot describe it any other way. And this
feeling of amazing intensity of feeling lasted for over 2 months.
When I listened to music, it was as if there was music behind
the music, behind the music. When I painted pictures-which is
what I do for a living-and when I was holding a particular color
on the tip of my brush, it was as if there were other colors in
that color. It was an indescribable thing, sir. Even now I cannot
describe it. But let me now, sir, go to something else. The Mantindane
are not the only alien beings that we Africans have seen and know
about, and have got stories to tell about. Many, many, many centuries
ago, before the first White-man came to Africa, we African people
encountered a race of alien beings which looked exactly like the
European White-man who were going to invade Africa in our future.
These alien creatures are tall. Some of them are rather well built,
like athletes, and they have slightly slanting blue eyes and high
cheek-bones. And they have got golden hair, and they look exactly
like the Europeans of today, with one exception: their fingers
are beautifully made, long and like those of musicians and artists.
Now, these creatures came to Africa out of the sky, in craft which
looked like the boomerang of the Australian people. Now, when
one of these craft comes down to land, it creates a whirlwind
of dust, which makes a very large sound indeed, like that of a
tornado. In the language of some African tribes, a whirlwind is
zungar-uzungo. Now, our people gave several names to these White-skinned
aliens.
They called them Wazungu, a word which
loosely means "god" but literally means "people
of the dust-devil or the whirlwind". And, our people were
familiar with these Wazungu from the start. They saw them, and
they saw that some-in fact, many-of these Wazungu carry what appears
to be a sphere made of crystal or glass, a sphere which they always
playfully bounce like a ball in their hands. And when a force
of warriors tries to capture a Wazungu, the Wazungu throws this
ball into the air, catches it in his hands, and then disappears.
But, some Wazungu were captured by Africans in the past and forcibly
kept prisoner in the villages of chiefs, and in the caves of shamans.
The person who had captured the Muzungu,
as he is called in singular, had to make sure that he kept the
glass-globe well-hidden from the Wazungu. So long as he kept the
globe hostage, the Muzungu could not escape. And when Africans
saw the real Europeans, the White men from Europe, they transferred
to them the name Wazungu. Before we met the people from Europe,
we Africans, we had met White-skinned Wazungu, and we transferred
the name Wazungu to the real Europeans, from the aliens. Now,
in the Zulu language, we call a White man Umlungu. Now, the word
Umlungu means exactly the same as Wazungu, "a god or a creature
which creates a big whirlwind underground". In Zaire, called
now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, White people are called
Watende or Walende. This, again, means "a god or a White
creature". And, the word Watende not only is used to refer
to the pink-skinned alien, but is also used to refer to the field
Chitauli. In Zaire, when shamans talk fearfully about the lords
who control the Earth, they refer to them not as Chitauli, but
they refer to them euphemistically as Watende-wa-muinda-that is,
"the White creature which carries a light" because at
night the Chitauli's forehead eyes glow like red lights in the
dense bush. They glow like the rear lights of an automobile in
the dense bush. So, a Watende-wa-muinda "the White creature
of the light", that is what the Chitauli are called in the
Democratic Republic of the Congo. There are over 24 other alien
creatures, sir, that we Africans know about, but I will tell you
briefly, now, about only two. Sir, in the country called Zimbabwe,
where I had my encounter in 1959, there is also another creature.
This is the most amazing creature, and I saw it once, and so did
several other people, some Black and some White, who were with
me. This creature is a huge creature, and shaped exactly like
a gorilla, but it is unlike a gorilla, which often walks on its
feet, as well as on its knuckles.
The creature I'm talking about, sir,
stands about 8 feet or 9 feet high, and is built exactly like
a gorilla, but its body is very powerful. Its shoulders are very
wide, it's neck is very thick. It is covered with thick, rough
fur, like no other wild animal in Africa. It is a humanoid creature,
with thighs and legs and feet, as well as arms and hands which
look exactly like those of a human being, only covered with a
heavy mat of dark-brown fur. This creature, sir, is known as Ogo
by the people of Zimbabwe. And schools of people have seen this
creature, hundreds over the many generations. Some of these creatures
have been seen right here in South Africa, in isolated bushy and
mountainous places. And these Ogo are, detail for detail, exactly
like what the Native American people of the Northwestern United
States call a Sasquatch or Bigfoot. In fact, I say it is the same
creature and we have it right here in southern Africa. It is also
exactly the same creature, but with a totally different skin color,
as the one that is seen by the people of Nepal on the slopes of
the Himalaya mountains, the creature that is called a Yeti. Now,
then, the last creature, sir, a creature which is so well known
in South Africa, and elsewhere in Africa, that if you mention
its name, people smile. It is called a Tokoloshe. Every African
knows what a Tokoloshe is. Some call it Tikoloshe. It looks like
a very nasty looking teddy-bear in appearance, in that it's head
is like that of a teddy-bear, but it has got a thick, sharp, bony
ridge on top of its head. The ridge goes from above its forehead
to the back of its head, and with this ridge it can knock down
an ox by butting it with its head. This creature causes the Black
people in certain places to raise their beds on bricks, one brick
laid on top of the other one, about 3 feet above the ground. And
you find this all over South Africa. This Tokoloshe likes to play
with children, and has been seen hundreds of times by school children,
in various parts of South Africa, even in recent times. Sometimes
it will terrorize children by scratching them as they sleep, leaving
long, parallel scratches on a child's back and upon a child's
thighs, scratches that become infected and itch terribly. About
two years ago, a creature like this terrorized a whole school
of children in Soweto, near Johannesburg. And the school children
called it pinky-pinky. Now, this creature is not only known in
South Africa amongst Black people, it is also known, sir, amongst
Polynesian people of Hawaii, and other islands in the Pacific.
These people lift their huts, their grass houses, on stilts, to
the height exactly that Africans lift their bed. When you ask
a Polynesian, "Why do you built your huts like this?"
The Polynesian will say, "We want to protect ourselves from
Tiki." Now, this is interesting, sir-that a creature exactly
like the one seen in South Africa is also seen on some Pacific
islands, and the name by which it is known in the Pacific, Tiki,
is very close to the African word Tikiloshe, or Tokoloshe. One
day I hope to share more of this information with your readers,
but my appeal, again, is this: Please investigate! Please, let
us investigate! Let us stop being too skeptical. Excessive skepticism
is just as dangerous and as evil as gullibility. Nobody can tell
me that aliens don't exist. Let someone tell me, what is the meaning
of this hole in my side? Let someone tell me, why is it that after
I had been mated to that strange creature, in that strange place,
my organ of manhood swelled horribly, and for many years after
that I couldn't make love to an ordinary woman, properly.
Why? If that was a figment of my imagination,
how can a figment of one's imagination leave you with scars and
cracks on your male organ, some of which have not healed to this
date? Let such people answer me that question. We must investigate,
sir, because there is every sign that the alien creatures sharing
this planet with us are getting desperate. Why? Because, you see,
there is a great fight shaping up, and anyone who thinks deeply
about such things can see this fight coming. What am I talking
about? Sir, until 30 or 40 years ago, very few people cared about
the environment. Very few people were concerned about the destruction
of the rain forests in Africa and elsewhere.
Very few people were concerned when White
hunters, who, at that time were regarded as heroes, massacred
Africa's animals in the thousands.
Very few people were concerned when the
great nations of the world, such as the United States, Russia,
Britain, and France, openly tested nuclear weapons in many parts
of the world. Today there are people who would spit at a big-game
hunter if he showed himself in a hotel and announced what he was.
Today a big-game hunter is no longer looked upon as a hero, but
rather as a murderer.
Today there are men and women, Black
and White, who are prepared to risk their lives to save trees,
to save animals, and to stop the insanity of testing nuclear weapons.
Sir, what does this tell you? It tells you that, after many thousands
of years of being dominated by alien creatures, human beings are
starting to fight back. Human beings are starting to care about
the world in which they live and in which they find themselves.
But, the aliens, the Chitauli, the Mantindane-call them what you
will-are not going to take that lying down. They are going to
punish us, as they did centuries before. The aliens once destroyed
a nation whose name has come down to us Africans as the nation
of Amariri. It is said that the kings of Amariri, this fabulous
country which we believed lay beyond the setting of the Sun, were
refusing to do what the Chitauli were telling them to do. The
kings, at that time, were refusing to sacrifice their children
to the Chitauli. They were refusing to make war on fellow human-beings,
in order to sustain the Chitauli, with their god's image. It is
said that the Chitauli brought down a fire from Heaven. They took
fire from the Sun itself and they used it to burn that great civilization
away. They caused earthquakes and tidal waves and destroyed the
great civilization of the Red people of the long green hair, who
are said to have been the first people ever to be created on this
Earth. It is said that the Chitauli allowed only a few surviving
people to escape the destruction of Amariri, and that they are
prepared to do this again in the very near future. I'm worried
about what is going to happen in other countries in the world.
All these earthquakes, which have caused the destruction of human
life in the Middle East and in parts of Africa and India, why
does my heart feel frightened when I read about all this? These
earthquakes are happening with unnatural regularity now, in Egypt,
in Armenia, and one of these earthquakes was so powerful, it went
right through the planet Earth and caused a very sacred rock in
Namibia, a rock known as the Finger of God, which has been standing
for tens of thousands of years, to collapse in a heap of rubble.
And when that rock collapsed, I received many worried letters
from sangomas who believed that because this rock had fallen,
then the end of the world was very, very near. Is there a question,
please?
Martin:I read your poem, your pledge. In your pledge you
mention the name Jabulon. Can you explain who that is?
Credo Mutwa: Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is
supposed to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my
great surprise, which I find certain groups of White people, especially,
worshipping.
We have known about Jabulon for many,
many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there
are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst
them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that
have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We
believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the
Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is
Umbaba-Samahongo-"the lord king, the great father of the
terrible eyes"-because we believe that Jabulon has got one
eye which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you. It is said,
sir, the Umbaba ran away from an eastern land during a power struggle
with one of his sons, and he took refuge in Central Africa, where
he hides in a cave, deep underground. And it is an amazing thing,
sir-it is said that under the Mountains of the Moon in Zaire is
this great city of copper, of many thousands of shining buildings.
There dwells the god Umbaba or Jabulon. And this god is waiting
for the day when the surface of the Earth will be cleared of human
beings so that he, and his children, the Chitauli, can come out
and enjoy the heat of the Sun. And, one day, sir, I had a very
unexpected visit while I was living in Soweto, near Johannesburg.
I was visited by priests from Tibet. One of these priests, I'm
sure you have met him or you know of him.
His name is Akyong Rinpochce. He is one
of the leading Tibetan priests in England who was exiled with
the Dalai Lama, and he visited me one day while I was in my medicinal
village in Soweto. And one of the things that Akyong Rinpochce
asked me was, "Do I know of a secret city which is somewhere
in Africa, a city made of copper?" I said, "But, Akyong,
you are describing the city of Umbaba, the city of the unseen
god, the god who hides underground. How do you know about this?"
And Akyong Rinpochce, who is a very serious investigator of strange
phenomena, told me that at one time the great Lama left Tibet
with a group of followers and came to Africa searching for this
city. And the Lama, and his followers, were never seen again.
They never returned back to Tibet. Now, sir, we have got stories
in central and southern Africa about little Yellow men who came
to Africa looking for the city of Umbaba, the city from which
you cannot return alive. What is amazing, sir-I don't know whether
this falls within the orbit of your newspaper, but-there are very,
very disturbing stories which I have followed-up here in South
Africa, stories which make no sense to me. (Break for a few minutes.)
Credo Mutwa: Hello.
Martin:Yes, Credo. May I just say that I am very appreciative
of your taking this time to talk with me, and I realize it's difficult.
Credo Mutwa: I appreciate the honor that you are doing
me, much more than you realize. And I know how White people often
treat anyone who talks on the subject that I am talking about,
as weird. Sir, I really shouldn't be exposing myself to public
ridicule, as I am, but, our people ARE DYING! Not only do we have
problems with drugs in southern Africa, not only do we have problems
with crime in my country, which is getting a thousand times more
vicious than it ever was before, not only do we have problems
with AIDS, sir, but we also have got weird problems which often
come our way-problems which, when you study them together, show
you that something unearthly is going on in southern Africa. Can
I share this thing with you, sir?
Martin:Yes, please.
Credo Mutwa: Sir, according to my culture it is very rude
for one man simply to talk to another man without giving that
other man the chance to talk back to him. So, out of respect of
your paper and of you, I would like to ask you, in your country,
the United States, do you have strange stories about underground
structures which are built-because we are having similar stories
in South Africa, and with us they are having very strange results,
indeed.
Martin:Yes, there are many stories of underground-we call
them underground bases, actually, and, in fact, in the newspaper
I was associated with earlier, we published an entire edition
on exposing the locations of those underground bases. Not only
that....
Credo Mutwa: There is exactly the same thing here in South
Africa, and there has been for a number of years. I was able to
confirm one to my own satisfaction, but I have failed to confirm
others. You see, sir, a man like me, who walks two worlds-the
African mystical world, as well as the modern, down-to-Earth world-must
be careful of what he says. But, about 5 years ago, I was living
in the little town of Masikeng, a very historical town which was
the site of a famous siege by the Boors, in the war of 1899-1902.
It was in this town, sir, that the Scout movement, the Boy Scout
movement, was founded by Captain Powell. I'm sure you've heard
about him. But, while I was living in Masinkeng, a number of people
came to me, ordinary tribesmen and women, sir, some of them totally
illiterate. These people complained to me that their relatives
had mysteriously disappeared. They wanted me to divine where their
relatives have gone to. And, I asked these people, all of whom
did not know each other, where did your relatives disappear? These
people had told me an incredible story, and it was this: Not far
from Masikeng there is a famous place which I'm sure you have
heard about, a place which we call the Las Vegas of South Africa.
This is the famous casino/hotel complex
called Sun City.
Martin:Yes.
Credo Mutwa: I was told that under Sun City strange mining
operations were in progress, deep underground, and that many of
the Africans who worked in those mines disappeared and never returned
home again, although their paychecks kept on being sent to their
family. The men never returned home, as ordinary miners do. Now,
I looked into this phenomenon, sir, and, like a fool, I refused
to believe it. And then more stories came my way, because when
an African is in deep trouble, he or she always looks for a sangoma
to find the reason behind the trouble. Sir, the other story was
this, and this one I found to be a shocking truth-that there was
construction across the border from South Africa, in the land
known as Botswana. There, the Americans were working with African
labor, who had been sworn to secrecy. The Americans were building
there a secret airport which can take modern jet fighters. Now,
I couldn't believe this. Again, I was told that many had mysteriously
disappeared there-ordinary tribesmen, sir, not even educated Black
people; ordinary workers have gone missing. And when their relatives
try to find out where they had gone, they are met with stone-cold
silence. Now, I wanted to have a look at this thing, and one thing
that made me act was that a strange story swept through South
Africa, that a South African jet aircraft, a jet fighter, had
shot down a flying saucer. And the jet fighter had been scrambled
from this secret base. Now, sir, I decided to investigate because
my credibility as a shaman and as a sangoma was at stake. I went
to Botswana. It was very easy.
You can still cross through the wire
and get into that country. The borders are not as heavily sealed
in certain places as many people would think. I went there with
some friends and I found that there was such a base in Botswana,
not underground, but on the surface. It is an aircraft base, but
Black people are afraid of even being seen near there because
it is said that you will disappear if you get too close to the
place, and the man who took us there didn't want to come near
that place. I studied it from far away, and it does exist, and
the man said if we got any nearer to the place, we would disappear.
Which is a very odd thing, sir, because there are many military
bases all over South Africa, and in Botswana, but this particular
one fills the local people with deep terror. Why this would be
so, I'm still struggling to find out, even now, because there
are too many strange things going on in my country, and they are
affecting the lives of many of our people very badly indeed. Now,
there is another thing, sir: It is that one of the things that
the Chitauli like to do in their underground caves, where many
fires are always kept ablaze, we are told, is that when a Chitauli
gets sick and starts to lose a large area of skin on his body,
it is said that there is a disease that the Chitauli suffer from
which causes them to lose large areas of their skin, leaving only
raw flesh. When the Chitauli gets sick this way, a young girl,
a virgin, is usually kidnapped by the servant of the Chitauli
and is brought to the underground place. There the girl is bound,
hand and foot, and wrapped in a golden blanket, and is forced
to lie next to the Chitauli, the sick Chitauli, week after week,
being well fed and well cared for, but kept bound hand and foot,
and only released at certain times to relieve herself. It is said
that after the sick Chitauli shows signs of getting better, then
the human girl is manipulated into trying to escape. She is given
a chance to escape, a chance which is really not a chance. Then,
when the girl escapes, she runs, but she is pursued over a long
distance underground by flying creatures which are made of metal,
and she is recaptured when she reaches the height of fear and
exhaustion. Then she is laid on an altar, usually a rough rock,
flat on top.
Then, she is cruelly sacrificed, sir,
and her blood is drunk by the sick Chitauli, which then recovers.
But, the girl must not be sacrificed until she is very, very,
very frightened, because if she is not frightened, it is said
that her blood will not save the sick Chitauli. It must be the
blood of a very frightened human being, indeed. Now, this habit
of chasing a victim was also practiced by ordinary African cannibals,
sir. In Zulu-land, in the last century, there were cannibals who
used to eat people, and their descendants, even today, will tell
you, if they trust you, that the flesh of the human being who
has been frightened and made to run over a great distance, while
trying to escape, tastes far better than the flesh of someone
who was simply killed. Now, sir, some time ago here in South Africa-and
it is still an ongoing process-5 White girls disappeared. They
were school-girls, sir. These school-girls were, every one of
them, a highly talented child-either a child who showed signs
of developing spiritual power, or a child who was a leader of
her class in one particular thought or subject of learning. Five
such children disappeared in South Africa.
It was a very big story in the newspaper
and, at one time, White people came to me and persuaded me to
try and trace these children. And one day a White man brought
to me a rubber toy belonging to a White child who had disappeared.
And I took the rubber toy in my hands and I noticed that the creature's
eyes appeared to move. It was as if the rubber toy, a toy dinosaur,
was about to burst into tears.
I felt very bad, as if I could stand
up and run away. And then I told this White man, "Listen
to me: The child who held this toy is dead.
What are you trying to do to me? This
child is dead. I feel it." And the White man, who was a television
producer, took the toy, the school books, and the jersey, and
he went away. And, sure enough, the White school child was found
dead, buried in a shallow grave next to a road. Now, other people
came to me asking for my help in finding their missing children.
Are they dead? Are they alive? Before I could do anything, sir-at
that time I still had a telephone in my home-my telephone started
ringing and people with very angry voices, White people voices,
shouted at me and told me to stop helping those people. They told
me that if I don't stop, acid would be thrown into my wife's face,
and that my children would be murdered, one after the other. And,
sure enough, sure enough, my youngest son was brutally stabbed,
almost to death, one day, by mysterious people whom his friends
later told me had been White-skinned people. And so, I stopped,
sir. I am told, reliably, that over 1,000 children disappear in
South Africa, almost every month. And they disappear, never to
be seen again. Many people, especially in the newspaper field,
think that this is the result of child prostitution rackets. But
I do not think so. The children-if you check the history of many
of these children, they were not ordinary street children, sir.
They are school children who stand out in their class, because
of certain subjects at which they are good, or, who stand out
in their class because of thoughts which they are good at. Not
only that, sir, but ordinary women have disappeared this way,
in Masikeng, also, at more or less the same time that the 5 White
children disappeared. In Masikeng, two Black school teachers,
female school teachers, disappeared in their car and were never
seen again.
But I don't want to burden you, sir,
with this terrible story. But let me tell you one last thing:
After the disappearance of the 5 White school children, the police
arrested a priest, a reverend of the White Reform Church, Reverend
Van Rooyen. It was said that it was Van Rooyen who was responsible
for the disappearance of these poor White school kids. And, he
had been assisted by his girlfriend, who hand-picked these children.
Before Van Rooyen could appear in court, a very strange thing
happened. He and his girlfriend were shot in their little vehicle,
a little 4x4 truck. And, after they had been shot, the truck managed
to come to a stop-a thing that a moving truck never does-and I
was told, afterwards, by a White woman who knew Van Rooyen, that
Van Rooyen and his woman had not committed this crime as the police
had said to the newspapers. They had actually been murdered. Why?
Because Van Rooyen was found with a gunshot wound in his right
temple, and yet, all of the people who knew him knew that he had
been a left-handed man. So, who murdered Van Rooyen and his woman?
It is one of the biggest and the ugliest mysteries in South Africa
to date. There is more, much more along these lines, but I won't
waste your time with it.
Martin:When we were talking about the Greys, you talked
about the Chitauli. You had described them, the reptilians-now
correct me if I'm wrong-were you describing them as tall, thin,
large-headed, large-eyed beings?
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. They are tall. They walk with a-you
see, the Grey aliens walk with a jerking motion, sir, as if there
is something wrong with their legs. But, the Chitauli walk very
gracefully, like trees gently swaying in the wind. They are tall.
They have large heads. Some of them have got horns all around
their heads. Now, let me express amazement, there exists-that
in one of the films that recently appeared in South Africa, a
Star Wars film, the latest one, shows a character EXACTLY like
a Chitauli, exactly! It's got horns all around it's head. These
are the warrior Chitauli. The royal Chitauli have got no horns
around their head, but have got a darker ridge reaching from above
their forehead to their back. They are very graceful creatures,
we are told, sir, but they have got-their little finger is a claw
which is a very sharp, straight claw, which they use to punch
into human noses, in order to drink human brains in one of their
rituals.
Martin:Now, are they fair skinned?
Credo Mutwa: They are not pink skinned. They are white-skinned,
like paper, almost like certain types of cardboard. Their skin
is like that, it is the skin, definitely, of scaly, reptile-like
creatures. Their foreheads are very large, bulging, and they look
highly, highly intelligent.
Martin:Now, it's been said-I've heard that these beings
are very controlling and they thrive on "divide and conquer".
Credo Mutwa: Yes, they do, sir. They set human being against
human being. I could give you many amusing examples, using some
African language, how the Chitauli are said to have divided human
beings. They like-do you know who they like, sir? They like religious
fanatics.
Martin:(Laughter)
Credo Mutwa: Ones who are burdened by too much religion
are very popular with the Chitauli.
Martin:Well, now, I can't help but wonder if the Chitauli
are prevalent in the United States because of the large number
of underground bases. In the United States, alone, the numbers
of missing children are so astronomically high that the White-slave
trade does not answer those questions.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, I agree. But, I'm sorry, sir, I
feel that it is in Africa that something very funny is designed
to happen. Let me tell you what happened to me, recently, sir.
We still have a little time. I won't be long, one minute or less.
Martin:No, no-that's fine.
Credo Mutwa: When I started talking to Mr. David Icke,
and it was (when) Mr. Icke started speaking about me in Cape Town,
I received a visit from 3 White people who pretended to be from
South America.
These people told me that something is
going to happen on the 9th of this month, on 9-9-99. They said
that this was going to happen in Lake Titicaca, a place which
I once visited about 2 years ago.
Martin:A very special place.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. And then, these people told me,
when we were speaking-these people, sir, speaking through an interpreter-told
me that Africa is the country where something is going to happen
soon which will decide the fate of all humankind. And then, we
parted on very friendly words, sir, but these people had left
me a letter which I did not open until a few hours after they
had left. And in this letter was written that I should not attend
David Icke's talk, and that a strange person called Alia Czar
was watching me. I don't know who Alia Czar is. And they said
to me-these people had said to me when we met-that they were under
a great lord called Melchizedek. And, after I'd read this threatening
letter, which threatened that if I talked, my wife, who is sick
of cancer in hospital, is going to die if I talked. Then, I began
to wonder. Who were these people? Then, because I've been to South
America before, I found that the Spanish language with which they
were speaking was different from the language, the Spanish which
is spoken in South America. These people were using Spanish from
Spain, and not the slightly weakened Spanish from South America.
Even now, sir, that threat is still hanging over my head and,
may I point out, sir, a strange thing which whoever you will send
to me one day will see for themself: my wife is sick of cancer
in the hospital, which is the largest hospital in South Africa,
sir. And in one of the x-rays taken of my wife's womb, a strange
metal device was seen-of a kind which has puzzled doctors. I spoke
to my wife. I asked her, "Who put this object, which the
x-rays have seen, in her womb." My wife said nobody had ever
touched her, and nobody had ever inserted anything into her. But
this artifact, sir, which is clearly marked in the x-ray, and
is clearly indicated with an arrow, is first seen in one x-ray
plate, disappears for the next 2 plates, and is seen on the 4th
plate again. I've been wondering very, very much about this. No
matter what we may think, sir, there are strange things going
on in this world and they require an agent, investigation, and
explanation. What is this strange device, which the doctors cannot
identify, doing inside the uterus of a 65-year-old woman? My wife
is suffering, and I can lose her at any time now, because I can't
even get her out of hospital. Who put this device in her uterus,
and why? I will never know the answer, not in this world.
Martin:I'm very sorry to hear about your wife having cancer.
I just lost my mother last year to cancer and I know that is a
very painful struggle.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, it is.
Martin:So, I am very sorry that you are going through that.
Credo Mutwa: Through the training as a Zulu step-son warrior,
we have got something like the Japanese Samuri which we call the
Kaway, which is a Sun warrior. When a Sun warrior, who is trained
like I am, undergoes a terrible experience, he must channel the
pain caused by that experience into cold, battle anger, in order
to overcome the grief he feels. And, at this moment, sir, I am
aggrieved about what is happening in my country; about what's
happening to my people; about what's happening to my wife, who
is also my half-sister. You see, ours is what was called a sacred
marriage between a man, a sanusi, a shaman, and his half-sister.
And, the wife I'm about to lose is my half-sister. Our father
is one man, although our mothers were different. You know, sir,
I feel a cold rage that Africa is being destroyed. I feel, sir,
a cold rage that my people are being destroyed by forces which,
when you study them, you find are totally alien. And, here, let
me share with you, sir, one last thing, please, which will make
your readers understand why I am feeling what I am feeling now.
As you know, sir, there is AIDS going like a silent fire through
South Africa. And, last year, I found, to my horror, that one
of my six children, my 21-year-old daughter, is HIV positive.
Sir, I feel a cold rage in my heart that we are allowing an alien
disease that came from we know not where, a disease which anyone,
with any thought, realizes was manufactured somewhere in order
to destroy large swaths of humankind. When I look into my daughter's
eyes, sir, I feel a chill. I've got two daughters, grown-up, young
women, and she is the last. The other one is short and dumpy,
and a loving-a lovely African girl with a big backside and big
breasts. But this girl, who is dying of this disease, is slender,
dark-skinned like my mother, and she is very beautiful, even by
European standards-and I cannot look into my child's eyes and
see what I read there: a resignation, a why? Why? If AIDS was
a natural disease, sir, I would accept it, because man must live
side-by-side with illness in this world. But a child, you spend
years educating and bringing-up, suddenly being snuffed-out before
your eyes, by a disease made by evil people, I want to tear somebody's
eyes out for what I've seen happening. I'm sorry, sir.
Martin:I understand.
Credo Mutwa: We must look into this thing. Is there one
last question you would like to ask?
Martin:Yes. I would like to go back to the copper city
for a moment. It would seem that this Jabulon would be the equivalent
of what, in the West, we call Satan. Would you say that?
Credo Mutwa: I think so, yes, sir. He is the chief of the
Chitauli. And, like Satan, he lives in a house underground where
great fires are always lighted, to keep him warm. Because, we
are told, that after the great war they fought with God, they
became cold in their blood and they cannot stand freezing weather,
which is why they require human blood, and also they require fire
always to be kept working where they are.
Martin:Well it's been said, in the recent video tape that
David Icke has put out, that the shape-shifting reptilians, in
order to maintain their faĆade, their cover, their human-like
appearance, they must drink human blood. And there is something
about the blond gene, apparently. Now, I don't know what...
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Mr. David Icke shared that a little with
me, sir. He told me that, repeatedly, golden-haired people get
sacrificed by the Chitauli , and then I told him, in my turn,
what I know from Africa. You see, sir, not all Africans have got
black hair. There are Africans who are regarded as very holy,
as very sacred. These are Africans who are born with natural red
hair. These Africans are believed to be very spiritually powerful.
Now, in Africa, such people, albeamers or red-headed Africans,
were the most victims of sacrifice, especially when they were
just entering maturity-whether they were males or females.
Martin:Now, when you were able to see the eyes beneath
the Grey alien's exterior, would you say that those were reptilian
beings underneath that cover?
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, exactly. I will tell you why. There
is a snake here in South Africa which is called a Mamba.
Martin:Yes, very deadly.
Credo Mutwa: It is one of the most poisonous snakes that
you can find. It has got eyes EXACTLY like those of a Chitauli
and of a Mantindane. And so has a Python, sir. A crocodile's eyes
are very ET-looking, and they don't look as hypnotic and as piercing
as those of a Mamba or a Python. If you can image, sir, the eye
of a Python, magnified about 10 times, then you have got exactly
what a Chitauli's eyes look like.
Martin:Well, it is said, and I believe this to be true,
that there is a-for lack of a better way of putting it-there is
a war between Light and Dark, Good and Evil, on this planet.
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes.
Martin:And there certainly is a God in His Universe, a
God of Light and Justness.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir.
Martin:How does your culture, how do you view the intervention
of God through His Hosts, through His Representatives? In all
things there must be a balance, and that includes on planet Earth-as
above, so below. How do you see-for many readers, they can read
about this all, and it sounds very frightening and very, almost,
hopeless-and yet, there certainly is hope. So, I would like to
end this interview on a message of hope.
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Please, sir, there IS hope! Look, first
of all, there IS a God above us. And this God is more real than
most of us believe. God is not a figment of someone's imagination.
God is not something dreamt-up by old men and old women in prehistoric
times.
God exists, sir. But standing between
us and God are creatures who claim to be gods. And these creatures
we must get rid of in order to get closer to God. Sir, I have
lived a long and very strange life, and I can tell you that there
is a God, and He is intervening. However, we see God's intervening
as slow, but wait: Who would have thought that less than 30 years
ago, not one person cared about the environment. Who put this
sudden Godliness within all of us? Today, sir, people everywhere
in the world are standing up and fighting for the rights of women
and for the rights of children. Who has put these ideas into our
minds? Not the Chitauli, not any demonic entity, it is God acting
in the shadow and making us strong and able to resist these ugly
creatures. You see, sir, God seems to work slowly in our eyes,
because God lives in a time-sphere totally different from our
own. God is there. God is working. And it is God, sir, who, for
the first time in our existence, is making us aware of these things,
making us aware that on this world we are not alone, and that
we must be soul-ly and solely responsible for our actions, and
we must neutralize these alien beings who for years have led us
around in circles. Human beings have never known any real progress,
sir, because there have been forces that have been stopping us
from reaching our rightful position in the universe, and I mean
the Chitauli, I mean the Mantindane, I mean the Midzimu. We must
stop regarding these creatures as super-human creatures. They
are just parasites who need us more than we need them. And only
a fool will ever deny the fact that we are not the only intelligent
species of being that this planet has produced. All over Africa
there is overwhelming evidence that once there were gigantic human
beings who walked this planet, in the days of the dinosaur. There
are footprints in granite, each one 6 foot long by 3 wide, footprints
of mature human beings, sir, which date back thousands of years,
millions of years. Where did these giants go to? Who knows; the
dinosaurs may have produced an intelligent race, a race which
deceives us into thinking that it comes from the stars, when in
fact it is part of this planet on which we live. There is hope,
and the hope is very bright. A Christ-child is being born in all
of us, but like all deaths, the death of the Light-child (the
death of the old-self prior to transformation into "Christness")
is going to be attended by great danger, as the enemy is going
to be driven into desperation. The enemy will make mistakes and
we will conquer him in God's sacred name. That is what I believe,
sir, and that is what I'm going to hold-on believing until my
last breath.
Martin:And that is a perfect place to end this-on that
thought, on that note. Now, let me just say, just for you, since
1974, I have seen many, many spaceships, close-up (though not
inside nor by abduction). I have experienced-in the mountains
of southern Oregon-I have come across Bigfoot footprints...
Credo Mutwa: Ah-hah!
Martin:...by a river where I was camping. I have heard
the Bigfoot in the mountains at night. I have heard their cries...
Credo Mutwa: Ya-ya! You see?
Martin:...from one mountain to another. These are things
I have experienced. I KNOW these things are real!
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. Then, I speak to a fellow warrior,
and I say, "We shall overcome", as the American Marines
used to sing during the Second World War.
Martin:Yes, and during the Vietnam War.
Credo Mutwa: We will overcome, we will overcome, but skeptics
must stop laughing, and fools must stop calling these aliens,
god.
There is only ONE God, and He or She
or It is the One who created us, and not some impostor who came
from somewhere else to hide behind us and to drink our children's
blood. Amen, sir.
Martin:Yes, absolutely right. Credo, please know that I
deeply appreciate what you have done and the courage of just speaking
frankly. It's past time to hold onto these things, and it's time
to just speak The Truth. And for those who don't believe or even
consider possibilities, well, it's just too bad.
Credo Mutwa: Exactly, and also to confront people with
the fact that there is no reason to fear anything. If we go from
a perspective of making information available that should be available
to every single person on this blooming planet, why the hell are
they trying to threaten you to keep quiet? If it's so ridiculous,
let it be. Stop assassinating and ridiculing and destroying people
by churning-up fear. This is the perspective I come from, and
I'm sure David, as well, and obviously you, as well, do too. I
don't have fear anymore. It's time that we speak out and that
we acquire a consciousness-a global, common consciousness-and
get this thing to the front. Thank you, so much, I really appreciate
it.
Martin:Absolutely right. Thank you.
Tuesday, April 23, 2013
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